What Monitor for Photography2011-07-30T05:30:11+02:00

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What Monitor for Photography

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  • Peter Betts
    Participant
    Post count: 1250

    Looks like my computer will need replacement soon. I might as well do the Monitor as well. My Monitor is a flat screen 19″ CRT Phillips (HUGE footprint!!!) but is 7 yrs old etc and CRT was far better than LCD in those days

    I am willing to spend about R5000 on a 21-23 ” flat screen. I will use it for day to day work and proposals but I want the BEST for my SERIOUS hobby photography…must be visually top of the range…any advice I have no knowledge….ie what are Dell like? HP hada great screen 2-3 years ago (Probably obsolete) What is this Dell U2311H like ….Is it better than the U2410? They seem to go @ R2400 about…Would a Monitor costing twice that be a better option….Mac Pro is out as there is NO Back up in E Cape and it took me 60 years to navigate Windows to about 5% capacity so MAC stuff is out

    Advice please

    Cheers

    Pete

  • Johan Grobbelaar
    Participant
    Post count: 435

    Do google search on ODP as this subject was covered fairly well the last few months …
    I use a Dell U2410 which uses an IPS panel and it is a great monitor. Whatever you get, make sure it uses an IPS panel (superior). If I remember correctly Samsumg now also markets an IPS monitor.

  • Stanberg
    Participant
    Post count: 889

    Peter, I have a Dell U2311H which is an IPS screen. You are welcome to come and have a look

  • cagenuts
    Participant
    Post count: 810

    So I guess the IPS panel is one that displays the sRGB colour space properly?

  • Andrew Roos
    Participant
    Post count: 964

    IPS stands for “In-Plane Switching”. It means that the crystals in the LCD (liquid crystal display) move parallel to the plane of the screen, rather than perpendicular to it as in TN panels. The main advantage of this is there is very little colour and brightness shift as you change viewing angle. This allows more accurate colour calibration.

    Also, most high-end IPS screens support 8 bits per colour for each pixel, i.e. true 24 bit colour, while the cheaper TN panels often only have 6 bits per colour channel. However some of the lower priced “e-IPS” screens used in the cheaper IPS monitors including the Dell U2311H and similarly priced IPS screens from NEC and others, only have 6 true bits per channel and extend this to 8 bits using “A-FRC” (advanced frame rate control).

    A-FRC is temporal dithering – in other words, switching the pixel value rapidly between two adjacent values to approximate the desired intermediate value. For example, if you want value 101 for one of the colour channels, but your 6-bit ADC only allows you to select 100 or 104, then in four consectuive frames you send values 100, 100, 100, 104 so the average is the desired value, 101. This approach is also adopted by some TN screens. I don’t know what effect it has on image quality and colour accuracy.

    The LM240WU4-SLB1 panel used in the U2410 has an 8 bit DAC so it can display 8 bits per channel without any dithering. Dithering (A-FRC) is used to extend the colour depth to 10 bits per channel. I also checked out the data sheet for the LM215WF3-SDA1 panel which I believe is used in the 21.5″ iMac displays. It is a true 8-bit channel, but does not use A-FRC to provide 10-bit depth.

    Most monitors support the sRGB space fairly well, since sRGB is a limited gamut colour space. Some IPS monitors like the Dell U2410 support a wider gamut, closer to the Adobe RGB colour space while the U2311H is sRGB.

    I’m watching the thread with interest as I’m also considering a U2311H monitor to get IPS on a budget.

  • cagenuts
    Participant
    Post count: 810

    Wow, thanks Andrew. Very comprehensive reply. Much appreciated.

  • Peter Betts
    Participant
    Post count: 1250

    Thanks so much guys…IPS 8 bits per pixel sounds good?? Stan I will certainly come have a look after 20 Aug when I am back

  • Stanberg
    Participant
    Post count: 889

    Wow, I wish I could say I even understood any part of that, Andrew….not knocking you, I just dont understand all those technicalities:-))
    Suffice to say, for me, the biggest advantage is “there is very little colour and brightness shift as you change viewing angle” – which means when others in the house tamper with the screen position, it doesnt change the screen lighting at all.

  • Andrew Roos
    Participant
    Post count: 964

    Correct. It also means that if you aren’t viewing the screen at precisely the same angle as your calibration device, the calibration should still be accurate.

  • J-D
    Participant
    Post count: 103

    If I had a R5k budget I would get either a HP LP2065 – one of the last 4:3 monitors – very good monitor – I have 2; or a Dell U2711 – a bit of a stretch at R7k, but I think it would be worth it. It is a 27″ IPS panel, but with a resolution of 2560×1440 (almost bought one the other day).

    I also have a Dell U2311 – it is good, but not exactly at the same standard – it is slower and has more color shift at off-angles, where the HP has VERY little.

    One other thing to consider is that some of these monitors are old stock and with the new import duties prices on some can be expected to rise by 50% soon…

  • Andrew Roos
    Participant
    Post count: 964

    @j-d 241435 wrote:

    One other thing to consider is that some of these monitors are old stock and with the new import duties prices on some can be expected to rise by 50% soon…

    J-D what’s the story with new import duties?

    Thanks
    Andrew

  • J-D
    Participant
    Post count: 103
  • Andrew Roos
    Participant
    Post count: 964
  • NikonGuru
    Participant
    Post count: 8

    Anyone used the new 27″ Thunderbolt screen from Apple?

  • Andrew Roos
    Participant
    Post count: 964

    I see Dell have released a new U2412M monitor. This is essentially a U2311H upsized to 24″ and with a 16:10 aspect ratio compared to the 16:9 aspect ratio of the U2311H. It does not replace the U2410, but will sit alongside it as a lower priced 24″ e-IPS monitor. The difference between the U2311H/U2412W and the U2410 is that the 2410 is a wide gamut (roughly Adobe RGB) monitor with 8 bits + AFRC (temporal dithering) giving 10 bits total colour depth. The U2311H and U2412W are standard (sRGB) gamut monitors, with 6 bits + AFRC giving 8 bits total colour depth.

    If you don’t need a wide gamut monitor then the U2412W may be a good choice since the 16:10 aspect ratio (and larger size) will allow normal 3:2 and 4:3 images to be displayed larger than on the U2311H, which is more aimed at the HDTV / video market.

  • cagenuts
    Participant
    Post count: 810

    Hey thanks Andrew, this sounds good. For interest sake, why would I want a wide gamut monitor?

  • Andrew Roos
    Participant
    Post count: 964

    @cagenuts 241763 wrote:

    Hey thanks Andrew, this sounds good. For interest sake, why would I want a wide gamut monitor?

    The gamut of professional CMYK printers extends beyond the sRGB gamut. Because the process is different (subtractive as opposed to additive mixing) and the primaries are different (cyan, magenta, yellow), the gamut includes some colours that are outside the sRGB gamut, while the sRGB gamut has some colours not included in the CMYK gamut. So a printer (including good home inkjet printers like the Epson R3000) can print some colours that an sRGB monitor can’t display. However the CMYK printer gamut is largely contained within the Adobe 1998 RGB gamut. So a monitor that can display the full Adobe RGB gamut can also display pretty much the full range of colours printable by typical good quality CMYK printers. (The converse is not true – CMYK printers cannot print all the colours in the Adobe RGB gamut).

    Also note that the gamut of image sensors also extends beyond sRGB so an sRGB monitor cannot display all the colours your camera can capture. So even an unmanipulated image might contain colours outside sRGB. Of course to see these, you would need to shoot raw and then convert into a colour space with a wider gamut, such as Adobe RGB, Pro Photo RGB or CIELAB.

    So if you print using high quality printers, you might want a wide gamut monitor like the U2410 so you can see the same colours when editing. sRGB is the standard for Web images so for Web work, an sRGB monitor is a better choice.

  • cagenuts
    Participant
    Post count: 810

    Ah thanks Andrew. I don’t think my photies are up to printing yet so maybe I’ll start with a monitor that can display sRGB colours to start with.

  • SteveG
    Participant
    Post count: 616

    I just received my Dell u2410. All i’ve done so far is plug it in, so no comments on quality yet.

    Be aware that Dell is no longer keeping stock of it’s larger monitors in the country. All the big panels (at least the u2410 and u2711 and u3011) are flown in to order. 10-15 working days wait from order to delivery. This is according to LandmarkPC, who I ordered from. I waited 2 weeks.

  • cagenuts
    Participant
    Post count: 810

    I’m looking at the HP ZR24w, anyone think this is suitable?

  • Andrew Roos
    Participant
    Post count: 964

    @cagenuts 241894 wrote:

    I’m looking at the HP ZR24w, anyone think this is suitable?

    There’s a review at http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_zr24w.htm.

  • Synaesthesia
    Participant
    Post count: 19

    Anyone interested in a BenQ FP241W? It’s got an MVA panel which is really nice, in terms of colour accuracy and viewing angles. Also has the most inputs I’ve ever seen on a display! Looking for R2000.

  • cagenuts
    Participant
    Post count: 810

    Ok, just ordered the HP ZR24w, probably could have gone with the infinitely cheaper ZR22w but I took advice on the better ratio. I did look at the Dell U2410 but after Andrew’s comments and further reading I decided that I didn’t need a wide gamut monitor as I’m not a pro and neither will I print my own photographs.

    Thanks for the advice.

  • Roberto
    Participant
    Post count: 1705

    Mac Pro is out as there is NO Back up in E Cape

    http://www.ipcsolutions.co.za/

  • Peter Betts
    Participant
    Post count: 1250

    Guys I am about to order my Dell U2410 Monitor..The shop in PE is going to make me up a computer but will have to order the monitor from Gauteng I suppose..2 Questions:

    1 What price do they roughly go for as in PE in my experience you can pay double as they assume their customers dont know
    2 Where is Dell in SA and what are their contact details???

    Thanks so much

    Peter

  • SteveG
    Participant
    Post count: 616

    Peter see my post #19 earlier in this thread. It’s likely there’s no stock of these monitors in country.

    1) They shouldn’t cost more than about R5400 inc VAT. I shopped around lots and ended up getting from LandmarkPC. They were close to being the best price and I was getting my PC through them anyway. Friendly guys, good service. Why not let the shop build your PC and just order the screen online? then your only extra cost is courier which shouldn’t be more than R200-300.

    2) dunno where Dell is and I don’t really need to know: They exist online. You can’t buy direct from them anymore, but you’ll use them (not the retailer) for any warranty and support issues. I’d suggest asking them about how they’ll address warranty claims in PE – extra costs?

    Been using my U2410 for a few weeks now and it’s great! nice wide gamut for those saturated colours. LET IT WARM UP! horribly off colour for about 5-10mins before it settles. Best to wait at least 30min before calibration and profiling.

  • J-D
    Participant
    Post count: 103

    http://purpleflytrading.co.za/shopping/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_63&products_id=3015

    They were the cheapest when I got my u2311. Just keep in mind, shipping was about R120 IIRC, should be more expensive to PE, I did get it within 24 hours of placing the order, though…

  • Forgiss – Sean Nel
    Participant
    Post count: 6513
  • Stanberg
    Participant
    Post count: 889

    Peter, I phoned Dell and they put me in contact with a guy in PE who was a Dell agent – Lyall Webster of Computer Guy – 0824660316

  • Peter Betts
    Participant
    Post count: 1250

    @stan Blumberg 244064 wrote:

    Peter, I phoned Dell and they put me in contact with a guy in PE who was a Dell agent – Lyall Webster of Computer Guy – 0824660316

    Stan thanks so much..Incrdeble corruption..moffatt is giving me the royal right runaround!!!

  • Mark Edwards
    Participant
    Post count: 10

    Hi Peter
    Don’t know if you have done the dirty deed yet, but if not I was just about to put my Dell U2711 (27″) up for sale. For no other reason than that I have slowly started moving
    over to Apple since a disastrous incident with HP. I have always lusted after an Apple cinema, and they have just confirmed that they have a 27″ Thunderbolt in stock.
    With the rand’s slide and the new tax stated above, now is the time !!
    I paid R 7471.39 for it in November 2010, so if I could get R 5000 for it I think it as a fair price.
    Please let me know soonest, I am going to put it on the classifieds, but will hang on till you reply.

    (btw – grew up in E Cape, and my mother and brother live in St Francis bay)

    Regards
    Mark Edwards

  • visagieh
    Participant
    Post count: 998

    @mark Edwards 245232 wrote:

    . I have always lusted after an Apple cinema, and they have just confirmed that they have a 27″ Thunderbolt in stock.

    Mark, I assume the Dell is a Matt screen. I am looking at a MacBP, but the gloss is getting me. Havent seen the matt version, but seing all MAC’s seem to be gloss. Looking at option of a big screen later.

    It seems you think the Dell is not as good as the Mac screens. Why ?

    Hannes

    PS, 90% of ordering a MBP with the matt screen option. Bummer, 6-8 week wait.

  • elsahoffmann
    Moderator
    Post count: 3717

    Hansie – get over it 🙂
    if Apple seem to think that glossy screens are the way t0 go – there must be a valid reason.
    like we use to say – 1 000 000 miners cant all be wrong.
    🙂

  • visagieh
    Participant
    Post count: 998

    @elsahoffmann 245242 wrote:

    if Apple seem to think that glossy screens are the way t0 go.
    1 000 000 miners cant all be wrong.
    🙂

    Elsa, you must see how much hate speech there is against Mac gloss.

    Have heard the Dells are so good, Thats why the post to Mark.

    Didnt know miners use Mac’s ?

  • elsahoffmann
    Moderator
    Post count: 3717

    whahahaha Hansie my skat – jy is funny 🙂

  • SteveG
    Participant
    Post count: 616

    Dell U2711 = Dell U2410. Just bigger. and more $$ of course.

    At least that was my conclusion when I was shopping around. The only technical difference I could come across was that the lighting uniformity on the u2711 was not as good and even as it is on the u2410. http://www.flatpanelshd.com I think is where I found that little tidbit.

  • Peter Betts
    Participant
    Post count: 1250

    Hi Mark..unfortunately the guy Stan told me about has got the 24 inch version sorted for me at below incredible Corruption price..Also 27 inch is probably to big for the confined desk space I have but thanks so much for your offer …certainly very worth it ..however why dont you keep it Mac computers are great but the gloss monitors Yuch!!

    By the way were you at St Andrew’s College late 1960’s??

    Cheers Peter

  • Mark Edwards
    Participant
    Post count: 10

    Hi Hannes
    Im have just bought a Macbook pro 17″, and I must say the gloss doesnt worry me at all. In fact I like the crispness it gives to images. They are indeed beautiful machines, and you will be very happy with it i’m sure.
    I don’t neccesarily think the Apple is a better screen. The Dells are great screens, and all the reviews I have read confirm this. have been very happy with both the 24″(previously) and the 27″

    My reason for going for the Apple is totally illogical, as most of our purchases are, but here goes:

    – I like the punchiness of the gloss screen
    – With the R/$ exchange rate, and the additional tax mentioned above, delay of this purchase will probably mean much more expensive in the near future.
    – The Thunderbolt connectivity has added benifits for use with macbook Pro,see http://www.anandtech.com/tag/thunderbolt.
    – I just LOVE Apple design , and have wanted one of these for years ( this is of course the most compelling reason !!)

    Are you going to run Your Macbook under Lion OSX, or windows bootcamp ? I am running mine under Windows and works like a charm. You just lose a bit of functionality
    on the trackpad.

    Best Regards
    Mark

  • Mark Edwards
    Participant
    Post count: 10

    Hi Peter – No problem , the Dells are great monitors and I know you will be happy with yours.

    See my reply to hannes for my “reasons” (justifications !!) for going for the Apple.

    I was at Dale College all my life, and matriculated in 1970. I assume you were at St Andrews .

    best of luck with your purchase
    Regards
    mark

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