/////Bride from Hell ..Advice Please!!
Bride from Hell ..Advice Please!!2010-08-23T08:24:06+02:00

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Bride from Hell ..Advice Please!!

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  • Peter Betts
    Participant
    Post count: 1250

    Most of you know I had a period of extreme financial stress for 5 yrs until I ghot my current sales job in Nov 09 where I am now able to cover the very basics…insurance, hospital plan, rates and eskom.

    During these days I did lots of little things including wedding photography (Which I hated = too much stress and too infrequent). I never used a contract and had to charge PE prices of R 4000 to R4500 per wedding.
    I did about 1 a month in good periods and all my brides were fabulous.

    In Nov 2008 I was stopped by an elderly farming couple in their big Merc..lots of money. They saw my advert on the back window and followed me. They told me that their daughter was getting married in S Africa at a game reserve near PE in 13 months time ..12 Dec 2009. I said yes R4000 and mom then warned me that daughter was a real bitch…warning sign No 1

    Daughter then contacted me from UK where she now worked and wanted to see some of my work…..I made a folder with examples of my work from 8 previous weddings and sent them off email… She accepted and parents deposited 50% deposit to confirm = R2000. Then about Sept …3 months before the wedding I got 2 requests for weddings that day in Dec..One in the morning ..Service and reception only in the morning which i would have got R 4000 and a full eevening wedding which I would have got R6000 offered = R10000 for the day both of which I had to turn down because of my original booking . Also at this time my Bride in UK started asking questions like…”She doesnt know my style can I send some more examples”…So I sent more from the 4 weddings I had done since booking..Still she wasnt happy and wanted more. At that time I also made 2 x 120km round trips to the Game Reserve to get the feel of the place and to meet the organisers. A month to go I couldnt take it any longer and phoned the manager at the reserve to find out if they were getting the same ridiculous demands..snigger at the other end!! The manager even went so far to suggest maybe bride was having cold feet and was looking for someone witha big reputation to take the pics..I made the decision for her and asked her to find someone else..called her bluff..No comeback at all which in my book meant she had found someone else. In good faith I asked around as to what is the right thing to do regarding the deposit remembering..no contract, 2 trips to the reserve, cancelled 2 other weddings for the same date and lost out on R10000.. All people I asked said dont refund any but I refunded half R1000 and wrote a long email explaining the above. Now 10 months later I geta phone call from angry mom saying I owe them R1000..I feel that is wrong…HELP

  • Anonymous
    Post count: 479

    “I made the decision for her and asked her to find someone else”

    I would guess you will have to make a full refund as you declined the job Peter.

  • Mariusbez
    Participant
    Post count: 673

    I would say you owe them R 1000

  • dFe
    Participant
    Post count: 415

    I have to agree with John, you have no right here to hang onto the deposit, telling them to go elsewhere was your decision, so unfortunately also your loss.

    Write it off (to some more) school fees.

  • Peter Betts
    Participant
    Post count: 1250

    Ja but normally if you call someone’s bluff there is an immediate comeback ..sorry etc but nothing in this case and 9 months later where’s my money and I told mom that I had explained it all to daughter in email to which she told me this morning that her daughter in UK had not told her that. I also had expences of 2 trips to the reserve totalling 240kms and lost income of R10000..I believe my offer was fair and the daughter on facebook had her ‘new photographers work all over and everyone raved which confirmed my suspicions that she was playing me with pressure to pull out which I did in the end…correctly so..I refunded half and retained half to cover a tiny portion of losses….Dirk your advocate still owes me money for the work I did for them in 2008….??????? Still waiting…why do I have to be the one who gets pushed around??

  • Jaco Fourie
    Participant
    Post count: 509

    I agree with the others. Working with difficult people is part of a wedding togs job. If you cancelled the job you have to refund 100% of the deposit.

  • Anonymous
    Post count: 479

    Peter, your option of consulting an attorney is open to you if you feel you have a case, personally I would pay back the money and learn from the experience of needing to have contracts in place, which should also include agreed expenses incurred prior to the wedding day as you describe. If that was done and the client cancelled it would be a different story. You pulled out of the job, the client didn’t pull out, you owe the deposit back my friend.

  • Ryan Drummond
    Participant
    Post count: 1344

    Pay the money and shrug it off. Refocus on going forward.

  • jaytee
    Participant
    Post count: 368

    @john Deakin Photography 213543 wrote:

    Peter, your option of consulting an attorney is open to you if you feel you have a case, personally I would pay back the money and learn from the experience of needing to have contracts in place, which should also include agreed expenses incurred prior to the wedding day as you describe. If that was done and the client cancelled it would be a different story. You pulled out of the job, the client didn’t pull out, you owe the deposit back my friend.

    That pretty much covers it. The important point is that YOU cancelled.

  • Surly Ghillie
    Participant
    Post count: 600

    Hi Peter,
    agree with everyone else. You asked for other togs opinion on this but seem extremely reluctant to hear what they are saying. did you want honesty, or just validation of the position you have taken?

    perhaps there is another issue raised here, beyond the ‘fairness’ or ‘universal justice’ of the interactive business environment. Forget for a moment this particular circumstance. You are discovering the reasons why professionalism requires certain procedural ‘hassles’ and effort, which is part of the reason why full time pro’s charge the way they do. There is a real cost to the procedure and infrastructure required to produce images to brief, efficiently, accurately, without excuses, comebacks and/or perceptual differences that leave bad blood in their trail.

    1. By having no written contract you brand yourself as non-professional.
    2. By having no paper trail confirming each and every interaction between yourself and your client, you leave yourself wide open, to misinterpretation, misconstruing and client dissatisfaction/confusion.
    3. by taking professional short cuts and charging cut prices (undercutting the people who take their roles more seriously and thus are more methodical and complete in the entire function) you create a specific ‘environment’ and you are discovering some of the consequences of that.

    This is part of the reason why pro’s go the extra mile; to protect yourself and your reputation against client’s non-legitimate moving of goalposts, and incidentally, also your client’s legitimate expectations.

    So OK, the bride is a client from hell? her husband to be might not have shared your opinion. The point is, professional photography (whatever the specialisation) requires a great deal more than just being a competent photographer.

    If you had quoted a proper rate, one at which you were prepared to do the job irrespective of the changing circumstances that developed (they have no relevance to the facts of the quote you gave anyway) then you wouldn’t be compromised by the jobs you turned down, the fact that the client was difficult, the fact that your circumstances changed along the way.

    You put plenty of effort in and thus you feel entitled to hang onto the grand. And so you are, perhaps in terms of a moral right. But it doesn’t work that way. In terms of professionalism, you don’t have a leg to stand on.

    I’d give the grand back and put it down to experience. But that’s not what you want to hear, is it?

  • dFe
    Participant
    Post count: 415

    @peter Betts 213540 wrote:

    Dirk your advocate still owes me money for the work I did for them in 2008….??????? Still waiting…why do I have to be the one who gets pushed around??

    I am not sure what this have to do with anything in this thread. Don’t worry, I won’t refer people to you again and save you the hassle of having to collect outstanding money.

    I get the distinct impression you want the reward without the work, sorry but being a photographer is just like any other business, you have to work for you income, deal with difficult people and take the knocks that comes with it.

  • Peter Betts
    Participant
    Post count: 1250

    @DirkErasmus 213551 wrote:

    I am not sure what this have to do with anything in this thread. Don’t worry, I won’t refer people to you again and save you the hassle of having to collect outstanding money.

    I get the distinct impression you want the reward without the work, sorry but being a photographer is just like any other business, you have to work for you income, deal with difficult people and take the knocks that comes with it.

    Dirk you called me in to your office 40 km round trip..Told me to go and see your client the advocates as you needed pics for their website ..I did that 30 months ago or so and took photos and submitted them.. no payment …so maybe you want to pay some school fees too or keep your ethics to yourself and dont comment on my valid predicament

  • Peter Betts
    Participant
    Post count: 1250

    @john Deakin Photography 213543 wrote:

    Peter, your option of consulting an attorney is open to you if you feel you have a case, personally I would pay back the money and learn from the experience of needing to have contracts in place, which should also include agreed expenses incurred prior to the wedding day as you describe. If that was done and the client cancelled it would be a different story. You pulled out of the job, the client didn’t pull out, you owe the deposit back my friend.

    Thanks John I really appreciate it pal…An attorney has contacted me and has said I was PERFECTLY IN MY RIGHT TO DEDUCT CERTAIN EXPENSES and that The R1000 was very reasonable aasa deduction…The only fault I did was my usual sort it out by trust method…which was accepted (By non reply 10 months ago)…now they want their money…not going to happen as their is non…feel sorry for ol Granny as she produced this gem…but then they are RICH farmers and as Dirk says …put it down to School fees…Grannies School fees

  • Anonymous
    Post count: 479

    @peter Betts 213560 wrote:

    .An attorney has contacted me and has said I was PERFECTLY IN MY RIGHT TO DEDUCT CERTAIN EXPENSES

    In that case I assume said attorney will act on your behalf if required on a win/pay – no win/no pay basis so it costs you nothing either way. I have had similar ‘advice’ from attorneys in the past that was incorrect, but they still expected payment for their services…… and far more than R1000.

    Good luck, personally I still feel that as you pulled out all deposits are returnable….

  • mariusmeyer
    Participant
    Post count: 82

    @peter Betts 213560 wrote:

    An attorney has contacted me and has said I was PERFECTLY IN MY RIGHT TO DEDUCT CERTAIN EXPENSES and that The R1000 was very reasonable aasa deduction…

    So if the legal person says it is fine then why ask the members on the forum? Do you just want them to side with you to make you feel better about it? And by the way… just because other people have lots of money does not mean its ok to take from them.

  • dFe
    Participant
    Post count: 415

    Peter, you are out of line.

  • Andries Oberholzer
    Participant
    Post count: 430

    At the end of the day, this might cause more damage to your name, should they decide to make a big story of this. I would have returned the fees and written it of as a lesson in life.

  • wildpicture
    Participant
    Post count: 81

    @peter Betts 213560 wrote:

    but then they are RICH farmers

    This is totally unprofessional. It does NOT matter if the clients are extremely rich or not. Neither does it matter if you could have had other more profitable jobs. You made a deal, you pulled out. It’s your decision.

  • Surly Ghillie
    Participant
    Post count: 600

    and there are some other things about professionalism;

    a. leave your personal issues out of it.
    b. deal with problems directly with the person you have an issue with. don’t try turn it into a stage show. if you have a business issue to sort out, go direct to the principals involved, rather than use ambush tactics on a public forum. It’s neither appropriate, nor fair, (nor in fact very good business practise).
    c. if you have a chip on your shoulder, don’t take it to work with you.
    d. don’t draw conclusions based on your personal bias

    big Merc..lots of money.

    but then they are RICH farmers

    you have no facts to support this conclusion, well none that you have shared. It appears to be based purely on your prejudices. Even if it were true, it’s completely irrelevant, but just maybe they are rich because they have a more realistic and effective business ethos than yourself ?

    e.I begin to discern a pattern emerging here….. or is it only me?

  • Geurt
    Participant
    Post count: 1100

    I think the content of the whole thread has turned lop sided Peter.

    Can I suggest you delete your personal prejudices and issues not related to your initial question(s) with others, as ODP is NOT the forum for those discussions. You got the help and personal inputs on how others feel on your perceived predicament and accept that as given.

    Thank you.

  • Tom
    Participant
    Post count: 146

    Amen to that Oom Geurt. Was considering whether to ask for the thread to be closed/deleted.

  • Deneys
    Participant
    Post count: 739

    I believe my offer was fair and the daughter on facebook had her ‘new photographers work all over and everyone raved which confirmed my suspicions that she was playing me with pressure to pull out which I did in the end…correctly so..I refunded half and retained half to cover a tiny portion of losses….

    You were played and she won. I think she knew if she pulled out, she most probably would have lost her deposit. Making you pull out puts her in the right – Must give it to her through.

    I myself would more than likely take it personal was well 😀 . It hurts to be played and then to lose and by a woman nogal.

    For the out standing money small claims courts.

    Hope you come right.

  • Mike Nell
    Participant
    Post count: 2040

    If this discussion goes off-topic the moderators will close.
    Please stick to the specific topic on hand.

  • Stanberg
    Participant
    Post count: 889

    @peter Betts 213534 wrote:

    …….I made the decision for her and asked her to find someone else..called her bluff…….

    It was a gamble on your part and you lost….dont expect her to pay your gambling losses!!

  • Alvin
    Participant
    Post count: 923

    2c for what its worth….

    Peter, you pulled out so you have no right to any of the deposit (“bride from hell” or not). In fact they may well have a legitimate claim for damages against you for doing so?
    I have to agree with Dirk – you way out of line with having a go at him.
    And lastly TMI (too much information – personal information)

  • CT Clicker
    Participant
    Post count: 13

    and i thought the tropical marine fish forums were hectic..

  • Andre2
    Participant
    Post count: 198

    You can be lucky you have pulled out because some people you can not satisfied no matter what you did. Imagine you did the wedding and they don’t like what they see and sue you for what reason what so ever.

  • Anonymous
    Post count: 0

    Let it go Peter, just give them the money and learn from the setback.
    Do what you can, to avoid a repeat.
    Some things can’t be anticipated (contract or not).
    Sometimes you just have to roll with the punches – take a few.. dodge a few!
    After a while you get to recognise the signs…
    and whether to simply haul arse 😀

    I was promised so much assistance with my first big project. It didn’t happen, which prolonged the project by months.. then bad weather put the boot in. That extra expense (time & petrol) was covered in my contract (as contingencies), and was paid for, after just one letter, thankfully (looming deadline). The assistance promised (plant id, locations, photo approvals along the way – just never happened) regardless of my e-mails.. some on the verge of begging. Everyone else (except the principal photographer :rolleyes:) was just ‘too busy’ :confused:

    Most of my images were finally chosen, and everyone seemed pretty happy.
    My website is based around what I’ve learned from that experience.
    I’ve changed the rules of the game completely.
    (whether they’ll play along remains to be seen).

    Use it like a stepping stone Peter, just learn from it 🙂

  • Donovan
    Participant
    Post count: 133

    You pulled out Peter, I’m with everyone else.. Give the money back!

  • Fanie
    Participant
    Post count: 944

    Peter, life is what happens while we were making other plans, do not take this as negative, see it as honest criticism, like on a photo, and let it drive you to new heights.

  • KoiErik
    Participant
    Post count: 526

    Refund, plain and simple, you made the decision, you take the knock, tough but thats the way it works.

    What you be doing if it was your daughter, or if it was your deposit you had paid someone for services and they pulled out?

    Sorry but this is a no brainer

  • Halfloaf
    Participant
    Post count: 12

    I agree. You definately owes her a refund. Just by reading this thread points out that you are not professional nor can you be trusted to go through with the wedding, seeing that you pulled out when the bride got a bit difficult.

    How many people that have read this thread will come to the same conclusion? Is R1000.00 really worth it?

  • Surly Ghillie
    Participant
    Post count: 600

    @fanie 213665 wrote:

    Peter, life is what happens while we were making other plans, do not take this as negative, see it as honest criticism, like on a photo, and let it drive you to new heights.

    Life’s what happens while we’re busy making other plans

    John Lennon (The Beatles… remember them?)

    you just gotta chuckle sometimes….I can clearly see, as you are reading this, somewhere in a parallel universe not far from here, there’s a new bride posting a new thread on some skanky forum;
    Wedding Photographer from hell ~ advice please” it reads…. and all the other brides are posting things like ” Aw… don’t be so mean. Ag shame, fooi tog, poor old dude, he could be somebody’s little ol grandfather … and you made it so tough on him… he should have kept all the deposit… especially as you didn’t even really want him to do the damn pics at the wedding…and he ran around like a blue-R’sed fly… and it’s less than 1% of what the wedding cost…. write it off to experience (for your next wedding?) etc, etc 😀

  • Tienie S
    Participant
    Post count: 16

    My honest opinion: You cancelled – you must refund. And I think you should consider never to do weddings again. At least not untill you are really a professional photographer.:cool:

  • Anonymous
    Post count: 0

    C’mon peeps.. why go for the jugular?

  • Deneys
    Participant
    Post count: 739

    I’m with you give it a rest why don’t you. Having a look at Peter’s photo stream I don’t think he is an amature at what he does but rather a professional that made a small mistake.

  • Surly Ghillie
    Participant
    Post count: 600

    @Natures-Moments 213773 wrote:

    C’mon peeps.. why go for the jugular?

    because that’s what kitty-cats do… especially when they’ve been pre-blinded by too many happy-flash snaps. 🙂 yeah, I know… it’s rough… and not particularly fair.

    Well maybe it is; When we post pics, the best we can hope for is that we are assessed on their content. Peter takes some great pics and we all know it.

    When we post forum comments… hey, guess what…..? same rules.

    Here, a great and passionate wildlife shooter has placed himself in another context entirely… and just as in wildlife photography, (where Peter himself has not shied away from being brutally honest with some of his pronouncements in the past) … wedding photography is as seriously competitive and many are just as passionate. Except for a few snide comments made by posters (whose age for the most part reveals them as ‘works in progress’ ) I haven’t seen too much that is any more malicoius than what lies behind the door the OP opened himself.

    I feel for Peter.. and if it were me, I guess I’d just put a sh1t-eating grin on my face and call… “Awe shucks, guys, fair cop…but give me a break here?”. I for one would repond in an eye blink…

  • Forgiss – Sean Nel
    Participant
    Post count: 6513

    Sorry Peter, but you are stuck.

    Your lawyer is also giving you bad advice. yes, certain expenses can be added to the cost if it was a negotiated expense.

    Rule number one: you can’t argue with paper!

  • Mike Wrankmore
    Participant
    Post count: 694

    This is an interesting title to the thread ” Bride from Hell “…..i wonder what the brides parents, who paid the deposit, would call a thread if they posted one? Interesting that the legal advice is for the photoghrapher…if a legaly binding contract is broken(whether verbal or written) surely the person that breaks the contract is liable.
    Reputation is everything and i personaly would have returned the full deposit!;)

  • Peter Betts
    Participant
    Post count: 1250

    There was no written contract..I work on trust
    The trust with customer was irevocably broken by continually asking for examples throughout the year of my work. ..this for R4000 wedding photography!! Other brides come over look at my albums and we havea gas at the wedding and they get a brilliant record of their special day.
    This bride had clearly found another photographer and was pushing me to make the first move. The final ridiculous demand came 6 weeks before D day..In HER interest I had to act (remember I had lost out on 2 refusals for weddings that day..requests after this acceptance) Not nice to pull out on the day so I made the decision and at my time and expence phoned around to the top 12 PE wedding Togs and found 4 that werent working and gave her these names. Guess what I phoned the 4 on my list this week and NOT ONE was contacted by this bride…Surly and co I wonder WHY?? Her pics on Facebook were fabulous and I rest my case..In retrospect I should have rocked up at the wedding and found I had a replacement and sued for the rest but with no contract I didnt havea leg to stand on….Today I refunded the Mom the rest less my petrol for an exploratory trip (being Professional Surley) and thats it..Thank goodness I dont have to rely on taking images of people anymore to eat but I will stick to Wild Animals…Nice guys come last with people and the need for legal contracts etc…My contract is the Gospel so I am happy with my conscience and was taken for a ride by a very sharp cookie…sure it was only once in about 15 weddings I did..The rest were/are extremely happy…I am very easy going and reliable and loyal …just dont do the forms/mistrust/contract thing too well

  • Anonymous
    Post count: 131

    I wonder what the lawyers fees would have amounted to if he had acted in this case.
    The R1,000 claim would have seemed like petty cash at the end of the saga if my experience with the legal crowd is anything to go by

  • Peter Betts
    Participant
    Post count: 1250

    @andre2 213613 wrote:

    You can be lucky you have pulled out because some people you can not satisfied no matter what you did. Imagine you did the wedding and they don’t like what they see and sue you for what reason what so ever.

    Andre you hit the nail on the head…I saw LOTS of unhappiness coming if I carried on..I blinked and in retrospect I’m glad I did in THIS case

  • Peter Betts
    Participant
    Post count: 1250

    @Grahame Lane 213834 wrote:

    I wonder what the lawyers fees would have amounted to if he had acted in this case.
    The R1,000 claim would have seemed like petty cash at the end of the saga if my experience with the legal crowd is anything to go by

    Grahame it was one of the hardest decisions I have ever had to make as I dont quit…..the school I went to hada motto to this effect and itsa motto all old boys live by…..The venue was to die for and as a photographer I was SOOO keen to do it..what a lodge and examples for my future brides

  • Forgiss – Sean Nel
    Participant
    Post count: 6513

    @peter Betts 213833 wrote:

    There was no written contract..I work on trust
    The trust with customer was irevocably broken by continually asking for examples throughout the year of my work….

    Peter, no offence, but the contract is not just to protect the bride/client, but also you… no matter what your intention is, you will always lose if push comes to shove

  • elsahoffmann
    Moderator
    Post count: 3716

    @peter Betts 213833 wrote:

    There was no written contract..I work on trust

    note at my local green grocer:

    In God we trust. All others pay cash.

  • Fanie
    Participant
    Post count: 944

    I sometimes pity the groom that gets involved in these wedding matters, and choice of wife…………..:D

  • Camera Man
    Participant
    Post count: 110


    16. RIGHT OF WITHDRAWAL
    “The Photographer’s” discovery of new information, changes, or other factors tending to circumvent its policies could result in its withdrawal. Non-cooperation; changes of locations, facilities or times available; missed appointments; bad or returned checks, or late payments are examples of contributing factors. Should “The Photographer” initiate the withdrawal, all fees and deposits will be returned, (except if the deposit was in form of a returned check/s) and also excepting fair market value for all services/products already provided. In case of withdrawal, R xxx.xx (xxxx Rand) an hour (or any part thereof) is billed for all photography services already provided, and R xxx.xx (xxxx Rand) an hour (or any part thereof) is billed for all other services, consultations, and all driving time.

  • Forgiss – Sean Nel
    Participant
    Post count: 6513

    @Camera Man 214419 wrote:


    16. RIGHT OF WITHDRAWAL
    “The Photographer’s” discovery of new information, changes, or other factors tending to circumvent its policies could result in its withdrawal. Non-cooperation; changes of locations, facilities or times available; missed appointments; bad or returned checks, or late payments are examples of contributing factors. Should “The Photographer” initiate the withdrawal, all fees and deposits will be returned, (except if the deposit was in form of a returned check/s) and also excepting fair market value for all services/products already provided. In case of withdrawal, R xxx.xx (xxxx Rand) an hour (or any part thereof) is billed for all photography services already provided, and R xxx.xx (xxxx Rand) an hour (or any part thereof) is billed for all other services, consultations, and all driving time.

    I have seen this quoted previously, where does it come from?

  • Camera Man
    Participant
    Post count: 110

    Hi Sean

    I had my attorney draw up a wedding contract/agreement as well as a corporate photography contract/agreement.

    This is one of the clauses in those agreements.

  • Mariusbez
    Participant
    Post count: 673

    @Camera Man 214438 wrote:

    Hi Sean

    I had my attorney draw up a wedding contract/agreement as well as a corporate photography contract/agreement.

    This is one of the clauses in those agreements.

    🙂 strange
    http://www.outdoorphoto.co.za/forum/showthread.php?t=4607&highlight=wedding+contract

    12-04-2007, 01:14 PM post 4
    2.RIGHT OF WITHDRAWAL: YOUR COMPANY NAME HERE’s discovery of new information, changes to agreed circumstances, or other factors which tends to circumvent its policies may result in its withdrawal. Non-cooperation; changes in locations, facilities or available times; missed appointments and late payments are examples of contributing factors. Should YOUR COMPANY NAME HERE initiate the withdrawal, all fees will be returned, excluding deposit as well as fair market value for all services/products already provided. In case of withdrawal, R100.00 an hour is charged for all photography services already provided and R50.00 an hour is charged for all other services, consultations and all driving time, rounded up to the nearest half-hour.

  • dFe
    Participant
    Post count: 415
  • Camera Man
    Participant
    Post count: 110

    Interesting indeed…

    I think I should have a good talk with my attorney!!! :D:D

    Is he maybe a secret member of ODP?

    I had this contract drawn up during 2001. At first it was a relatively simple one pager contract but as the business grew both the wedding contract and the corporate photography contracts evolved into the “fully fledged” contracts it is today.

  • Camera Man
    Participant
    Post count: 110

    Phew…for a moment there I thought I paid my attorney for possibly copying a contract from Google or ODP…ALAS although that clause is pretty much the exact same wording as the one on ODP I notice with relieve that the rest of my contract/s are not the same wording.

    Sorry for doubting you Mr. attorney!

  • Forgiss – Sean Nel
    Participant
    Post count: 6513

    hehehehe…

    “one of these… one of these, delete this section, copy & Paste…. DONE! That will be R2,712.56 please…” 😀

  • Camera Man
    Participant
    Post count: 110

    Aaaaany way…back to the topic.

    My five cents worth will be that if I was in this situation I will not point blank pay back the deposit. (I am sure I am sticking my head into a hornet’s nest just about now!) :D:)

    Even though there was no written agreement it will, in my humble opinion, pretty much come down to what was said and discussed during the initial consultation and any subsequent communication. If the terms and conditions around the deposit were explained there might be a fighting chance for Peter. (A verbal agreement is more difficult to prove but it is still an accepted form of “contract”.)

    However, here is “only” R1000.00 at play. The question is therefore will either party be prepared to incur legal fees that will surely exceed the R1000.00. Even if the “rich” parents approach an attorney for legal recovery will it be worth their while to claim this money back if it will in all likelyhood cost them more than the actual R1000.00.

    If I am Peter I will take my chances, but I will prepare my case in the interim. Work out an hourly fee, kilometes travelled, petrol costs at the time etc. etc. etc. Also I will get evidence that I actually visited the wedding venue e.g. access records from the gate, photographs taken at the times of the visits which will prove the dates and times. All this will count towards the calculation of the costs.

    Remember, in terms of that clause, we are talking about “market value” and a R1000.00 on a R4000.00 wedding is 25%.

    I will also get proof of the other wedding enquiries in the form of affidavits if possible. A mere enquiry from those clients will not be enough, there will have to be proof that those cliens were prepared to actually book Peter if they could. This will go towards damages suferred by Peter. If this can be proved Peter will have lost more than just the deposit or the R1000.00 he already repaid.

    I will suggest that Peter run this past an attorney specialising in contract law.

  • Camera Man
    Participant
    Post count: 110

    @Forgiss – Sean Nel 214449 wrote:

    hehehehe…

    “one of these… one of these, delete this section, copy & Paste…. DONE! That will be R2,712.56 please…” 😀

    Sean…it sound like you were my attorney!!! :D:):D
    Can I PLEASE have my bucks back?

  • Donovan
    Participant
    Post count: 133

    @mariusbez 214442 wrote:

    🙂 strange
    http://www.outdoorphoto.co.za/forum/showthread.php?t=4607&highlight=wedding+contract

    Awesome, thanks for the link to the thread & thanks to Poolstok for initially providing it 🙂

  • Dallas
    Participant
    Post count: 875

    Unfortunately there will always be situations where you find yourself getting shafted by people who are happy to take advantage of your good nature. The only way around this is to become hard nosed.

    I had a situation this week where a quote I had done over a month ago suddenly popped up on the radar again. The client (a PR firm in JHB) wanted me to go ahead and do the shoot on Friday and then they would pay me 30 days after invoice. I said, nope – I don’t work that way. If they wanted me to do the shoot they had to pay in full before I send up the disk, or I would re-quote at a substantially higher rate.

    They said no to that, so it’s likely that some other sap in Durban will do the job for them and then hope to get paid 30 days from invoice (which would likely be at the end of October). People think I am nuts by turning down work, but I don’t care. I work on my terms and I don’t give credit to customers I have no experience with.

    The point is, if you’re going to take money for photography be a businessman first and a photographer second.

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